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1 writes:

So, who's this Holly and is she single?

flying squirrel writes:

To answer the second question first, nope.

1 writes:

That's too bad. Maybe I should go sign you up for an internet dating service.

flying squirrel writes:

Have you ever used one? An online dating service, I mean.

SideKick writes:

My room mate has had various degrees of success with one of them, LavaLife I think it was called.
I've also checked it out, but really haven't gotten much out of it...mind you, I haven't really put much into it either...
Maybe I should get on that.

1 writes:

When I am no longer a poor college student worried about paying rent I may use one but that's a way down the line for me.

I do have friends that have had success with them but like SideKick said you have to put some effort into it and know exactly what you're looking for in a relationship.

flying squirrel writes:

My problem with the whole online dating concept is two-fold. Well, three-fold. Manifold. How 'bout I discard the enumeration and ramble for a bit? Good? Good.

The whole "dating" idea is a bit terrifying. I figure this is mostly because I haven't done it before. So even if I were to successfully navigate the online dating process, the ultimate goal is to wind up with an honest-to-goodness, real-life *date*. With somebody I haven't met IRL. Which is terrifying.

Backing up a step, I've always been kind of outside the whole "dating" culture. None of my friends have ever "dated," in the sense I'd usually think of it. Two single people meet each other and hang around for a bit and then magically, without any reason or warning, they're suddenly "going out." This is the bit I've never really figured out. And I'd really like to. That's kind of what I want. Actually, first, I kind of need that other single person to hang around with to make the "going out" thing happen.

The point is, the whole "dating" thing seems terribly unnatural. I don't know anybody who's done it.

Oh, there have been a couple times when I've been in the "hanging out" stage, and a little voice in my head is going "I *have* to do something here. What about that dating thing peope talk about?" The persons involved, however, made it pretty clear that they "didn't date." Subtle manoeuvring of conversation in that direction led to subtle rejection. In retrospect, it could be that the "I don't date" statement is a variant on "just friends," but at the time, I took them at their word. I didn't actually want a date anyway. They're terrifying. And I suck at small talk.

So yeah, online. At this stage, I'm willing to give it a shot. Dating, even. I've done the Lavalife window shopping thing. If I find someone I find reasonably attractive and/or sounds fun and interesting, she's inevitably looking for someone who obviously isn't me. Or she smokes. I've tried filling out the registration forms, but stop, realizing that in order to get any interest at all, I'm going to have to lie outright. I mean, *I* think I have positive things to offer in a relationship, but I really can't answer things like "What song or album puts you in the mood," and what I do in my spare time is pretty uninspiring. I just end up being yet another slightly overweight, unphotogenic almost-thirty geek boy amongst millions. The thought crosses the mind that this isn't going to be any easier or more likely to succeed than any real-life alternative, whatever those are. It's pretty depressing, really.

The whole "dating" idea is a bit

QYV writes:

Cheer up! I used to think the same way you do about dating and stuff like that. Well, I still do actually. Hmm..

In any case, I have been lead to believe that the main difference between going on a "date" and "hanging out" is that the couple on a date is interested in starting an exclusive relationship with each other.

Now one major worry when you're on a date is rejection (the other is "commitment" but that's a different story) which is why it makes it so scary (for me) to date rather than just "hanging out" (which has no risks).

Once you get over the rejection aspect of dating, you can probably enjoy the dating scene as you'll meet a lot of new people and learn so much from these new faces. (You can say the same with friends, but with friends, you're expected to hang around - dates are more likely one shot deals and have a faster turnover.)

You only need to succeed once in this game, even if you have to fail many times before then. Besides, I think you're a cool guy, and there's bound to be others who think the same way. All you need to do is find them..

Dan writes:

No luck with the ladies?
Six words: "I'm not gay, but I'll learn."

Tee hee hee -- just kidding, Squirrel. ^^;
Man, I'm so fucking unhelpful. Bah. Umm.... Ganbare?

1 writes:

What are you talking about? Gay guys get all the women they just don't do anything with them.

QYV almost has it right. A couple on a "date" doesn't mean that they are interested in an exclusive relationship with each other, it's that they are open to finding or being in a relationship. Trying to switch a just "hanging out" thing into a relationship is harder because one person may not be open to a relationship.

Rejection isn't something one should worry about on a date only in asking someone out on a date, which isn't so bad since you really only risk whatever you place into the proposal. If you place all your eggs in one basket, as they say, by making a date invitation then a rejection is really going to bother you. If you put just a little into it, I don't want to say nonchalant since this will probably be a detractor, then it's no big hit to the self-esteem. Anyway, the chances are that if you fail to ask someone your interested in out you'll end up doing more damage to your self esteem for that failure than a rejection. There's alot to gain and very little to lose.

First dates: should really be handled as just hanging out, but in a fairly nice place, anyway since you're really trying to decide whether or not further energy should be put into the pursuit of more. Also, just because the date doesn't lead to romance you could miss out on forming some other kind of relationship with them, which is great when they have single friends to fix you up with.

As for the online services, they have a better chance of finding success then hanging out in bars, not to disparage hanging out in bars since I am known to do that at times just not looking for more than cold beer and good music when I do though, or other scenes when it comes to relationships. I know that if I'm still looking when I get through with school that I'll probably go this route. It has too many positives to ignore and the only thing better that I can think of is friends setting you up with quality people.

Dating unnatural? There really isn't much left in human existance that isn't unnatural.

www.match.com seems to have a nice setup. I don't know how it really works since I've only browsed through it as a non-member. I've received emails from someone who set up a service for those involved in my University so you may look into that (and if they don't it could be a decent business opportunity for someone versed in computers, wink wink nudge nudge). If your college offers something like this it gives those using it a leg up since they share at least something in common.

As for questions that you fill out, wither ignore the ones that don't pertain to you or use them as a chance for humor. As for the overweight, unphotogenic crap, you choice there is to change your own beliefs about yourself, or change yourself to fit what you believe you should be, or better still is the combination of the two since there are things about ourselves that can't be changed but our thoughts towards them can.

Anything else?

flying squirrel writes:

Well, the bar was never an option. Damn things make me nervous as hell.

And I don't mean "natural" in the organic food sense. I mean it in the sense that dating is counter-instinctive (not to mention terrifying). I don't know how to go about it and if, miracle of miracles, I actually pull one off, I have no idea what I'd actually do there. And I don't think I *can* just wing it, because it seems to defy winging.

QYV writes:

Good point 1, I was a little too narrow in my definition of date. But the question for [squirrel] is: Why? Why do you want to start dating? Why here? Why now?

flying squirrel writes:

I still don't *want* to start dating, per se. Ideally, I want a committed, long-term relationship. But it's hard to get to one without the other.

This isn't exactly a new thing. What's new, I suppose, is that I'm more open about it than I have been. I've been ("actively" is the wrong word; it's been pretty passive) *looking* since late 2000, maybe. (I was looking in university too, for that matter, but I was too much of a mess to get anywhere. It's a real regret, actually. If I'd had my act together then, I'd be in a much better position now. There were far, far more opportunities in school than there ever have been since).

I've been thinking lately that it'd be a good idea to be more open about it, because it's become blatantly obvious I'm not getting anywhere on my own. So maybe I can get advice or ideas or something if I talk about it.

I want to be in a relationship because, frankly, being alone is the only thing about my life that sucks right now. Everything else is pretty awesome. But I come home and there's no one else here. And I think there should be. So that things like making dinner don't seem so miserably pointless. (I'm being flippant, of course. There's more to it than that, obviously).

As for why *now*, well, a few months ago a female friend I kind of liked (despite being rationally aware that a relationship was never in the cards) started going out with someone. And I had one of those "what the hell am I doing?" moments. I realized that, as much as I love my friends and everything, what I'm doing now isn't getting me to where I want to be, and I'm probably going to have to start looking outside my circle of friends to get there.

QYV writes:

Well, I'm the last person to ask for advice, but good luck in your quest! It's never too late to start. You may find being in a relationship more difficult (and more rewarding) than you may ever imagine..